Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

February 09, 2010, 03:33:18 AM

News:

We're shutting down the Forum- go sign up at The City, or check the Plaza for the latest news!!!

[bob]

Okay- I don't want to know who you are voting for, and I don't want to know why you think the other guy (or gal) is a rat.
 What I want to know is how does someone who sees themselves first and foremost as a follower of Jesus make decisions about who to vote for?

Why kind of questions do we ask ourselves? What kind of information do we listen to? What kinds of things do we want to know about candidates and how do we keep from pinning too much, er... hope (no- that's not a hidden slam!) on any one person or even on the political process/government?

[aaron edwards]

(steps up with my ten foot pole in hand)

Something I was thinking about earlier is how the church seems to be divided as far as politics goes anymore. Sure, you have the right wingers who stand with the Republicans because the Republicans stand for morality on such issues as Gay marriage, Abortion, stem cell research, and the like.

But then you have the crowd who stand with (or at least vote for) the democrats because of social welfare issues and the like.

Like I said, I've got my ten foot pole in hand, and honestly I would rather not step on any toes here, so I'll hold back on saying anything too damning, but I think its interesting how both of these groups of Christians are really trying to do what's right, and yet we end up on the opposite sides of the fence.

Don't really know where I was going with this one.

[jenny]

I was thinking last night, while listening to Palin's speech on the radio, how interesting it is that we, as a nation, split into two "groups" and then basically fight based on these issues we think are important.  Everybody's cutting everybody else down.  It's quite amazing.  I'm not really into politics but I like to sort of know what's going on.  But really, who in their right mind thinks they can run a country this big?  That's a dangerous thing to say, I realize.  Maybe it's just my own insecurities talking.

Other than that... I think it's really difficult to choose between two people who both have some pretty good qualities and stand up for good issues.  I tend to be a gut-feeling person on these types of things, with the proper amount of self-education too though.

So not much to say there.  Just random thoughts.  Please don't attack me

[bob]

I think its interesting how both of these groups of Christians are really trying to do what's right, and yet we end up on the opposite sides of the fence.

Excellent (and appropriately charitable!) observation!

That's the thing- both sides are trying to do right as they see it... but neither side seems to make much of an effort to se it from the other's point of view, I think- and therein lies the problem.

Regardless of political rhetoric and the lumping of McCain in with GW Bush on one side and the belittling of qualifications on both sides- I have hope.

I think both McCain and Obama have the potential to be unitifyers not dividerers ( ) moving ahead- I think both could reach across party lines and actually get something done in Washington- for the first time in my life I (and I know this isn't how many/most of you feel) am not appalled and freaked out at the thought of either ticket winning- each one gets me something I want in office.

Serious question: Does anyone pray about who they should vote for? Why or why not? How would one do that correctly/incorrectly?

[Tina Lips]

During these intense political seasons I am finding more and more that i need to challenge myself. What I mean is if I am backing a candidate for XYZ reasons where in my life does that show other than in my voting? If I truly believe my passion is coming from a Kingdom vision than I need to be doing more than voting for a particular candidate and it is in the living out of my convictions that I can play a part in Kingdom work. I think collectively we all have incredible power to effect change in our world with or without "our" candidate in office. So I do my best to assess the character and substance of a candidate and realize that ultimately it is not who is in office but what is the Church (me and you) doing irregardless of who is in office to materialize the Kingdom on Earth as it is in Heaven.

[MaryC]

In answer to Bob---Yes, I pray about who I should vote for....and really try to see what would be good for the whole country/state/region , not just those of us who believe in Christ.  Too many times on both sides of the debate we see the right/wrong instead of trying to find the middle...

As Jim Wallis said "My God is not a Republican or a Democrat"...I have to remember that when I feel self-righteous and am irritable about the other side of things-

PS-I appreciate how much grace everyone is giving each other in this thread-very refreshing...

[Brian]

There's much to say here, and so I will extend my typically 3-foot pole out to 10.   

Historically, I've considered character of the candidate - as best I can tell.  I've considered style of leadership in more recent years (e.g., fighter, unifier, pragmatist, etc.).  Voting on "moral" issues seems difficult as one party seems to focus on what I've called "personal morality" while the other focuses on "social morality", but I generally prefer policies that "advance good" over those that "reduce bad".  For too long, my faith informed (dictated) what I was against more than what I was for.  I believe Christ's greatest commands to me are the "advancing good" variety more than the "reduce bad" variety.  I like a politician, and his/her politics, to be the same way.

I agree with what others have said, that God is not a Republican nor a Democrat.  Both parties have holes in their platforms (in my opinion).  Both parties have members who are corrupt, or self-serving, or are simply not such good folks.  I'm sure of that.  But I think that both of these candidates want to be president to better our country.  I think they are both sincere and well-intentioned.  I still think both of the candidates will probably let us down (surprised I said that?).  One has even said that -- that change doesn't come from Washington, change comes to Washington (sound-bite-ish, I know) -- and that the work that needs to be done in this country isn't going to be done (primarily) by the country's next president, but by it's citizens.  I appreciate the sentiment, and I think that's true regardless of who lives in the White House.

I hope my 10-foot pole didn't shrink too much. 

p.s. - I have prayed for my country, prayed for the current president, and prayed for my candidate more than I've prayed about the decision of who to vote for.  (shrugging)

[bob]

Dude- excellent summary. I liked that...

[Dan Brown]

food for thought

[Brian]

Dang that's a long essay!

But what things do you look for in making a decision to vote - assuming you hope they'll do something worth voting for  -  and do you pray over that decision?

[Stephen Grant]

I always vote third party so I can complain and take no responsibility....

[Andrew]

Ya my dad either votes for Jesus or his best friend.   Either way he can pretend he's still a democrat (he hates admitting he prefers the republican stance).

I have spent some time thinking about this since I went to a very, very right wing conservative Christian worldview training camp in high school.   I came to the conclusion that the best political position I could take was one that reflected how Jesus reacted towards people here on earth.   With that, I had two main observations: 1. Jesus didn't force people to make the right choice, even though there was one (i.e. the rich man), and 2. Jesus healed people without them "deserving" it.   What a trump card I pulled!   Watch out.

These two observations didn't exactly land me Republican or Democrat, but my leaning can get pretty far left (Julia's mother had serious qualms about her hanging around a "communist").   I don't value as highly as some making political decisions based on morality, because I didn't see Jesus do it with the rich man.   The rich man knew the life he was living wouldn't lead him towards the ultimate good thing, but he chose it anyway, and Jesus let him walk away and make that choice.   Now, I only take that as far as how a person's decisions affect themselves.   It is a totally different story in my mind when somebody makes decisions that affect another (rape, murder, stealing, etc.)   The other observation leads me to choose for a government that gives people a standard of life, regardless of whether or not they earn it.   Anyways, love you guys.

Andrew

[steveganz]

Bob asked 

What I want to know is how does someone who sees themselves first and foremost as a follower of Jesus make decisions about who to vote for?

One problem I have is that I am not sure that my grasp of the candidates is actually connected with reality. There is this huge mediator between me and this person - media, how the person wants to be seen, etc. So I try to dig through the veil by looking for integrity. I look at answers to questions and see how much spin is being applied. I also look at any off-handed remarks, like the one where current president Bush, when running for office, cursed a reporter when he thought his microphone was off. I would rather have a person of integrity in office who I disagree [sorta?] with than one who lacks integrity and seems to share my views on things.

Another problem I have is what kind of ego must a person have to want to be president? Those that love to be first are hard to trust.

So I guess my priority sequence might look something like this:

1. integrity/trustworthiness
2. willingness to listen to people who disagree with them and who
3. endeavor to find ways to solve the problems that differing sides see.
4. has a good grasp of the issues from differing perspectives
5. is courteous
6. and who sees it my way.

I agree with Bob in that in this election for president both candidates are closer to my ideal as expressed above than I think I've ever seen. Yet they both will never actually reach my ideal. My politics may be best summarized by the scriptural statement

Even so, come Lord Jesus

[aaron edwards]

One way I try to vote is to ask "how will this measure or this candidate affect those who don't want said measure or candidate." IE, there's always cons - and those cons might make people's lives more complicated, or even cause them harm  be it physical, financial, or....?

[StephenB]

I think that we as individual Christ-followers tend to vote for the candidates who seem to be concerned about the things that we are concerned about, and as individuals we try to be concerned about the things that we think Jesus is concerned about.  And that's the rub, because there can be 5 Christians living on the same block and if you ask them to list the 10 things that Jesus was most concerned about, you'll get 5 different answers.  There will be overlap, but no person's list will be the same.  None of us has a lock on what Jesus is most concerned about today--we can only make our own interpretation from scripture and then extrapolate to a culture that is quite different from the one to which he spoke.  I do think it is a matter to be prayed over, but I expect fervant prayers from the faithful will yield the same diversity in thought. 

I appreciate Tina's words of perspective--that it's really not about who is in which office but what am I doing to reflect the kingdom of heaven here on earth.  I find myself thinking about this when I start getting anxious about the election.  I personally think that there are more people invested in this election because it represents an opportunity for a change of direction with respect to the war in Iraq and American foreign policy in general.  War wears down a nation, particularly wars in which we weren't attacked (see also Vietnam and Korea).  Add to that the suspect reasons for invading Iraq and people are ready for change unlike any other national election I can remember in the last 20 years.  As a father now I think and feel differently when I see Iraqi parents mourning their children who died at the hands of munitions that my taxes paid for.  It has become very personal and emotional to me, and I try not to let my anger get the best of me, but it's hard.  Although my vote will go to the candidate whom I think is less likely to rattle the sword and rush us to war in the future, I fully expect to be disappointed at times with his foreign policy rhetoric, which will likely mirror that of other presidents of the last century rather than represent a bold new way forward.